Urgent Full Membership Help !!

[X7thomas]

Hello,

Im hoping someone can help me because I am so stressed out. Basically I have received my Full Membership application form and it mentions any history of creditor agreements. The problem is that I was in an IVA and am now worried that I may not be able to get full membership.

I feel really annoyed :mad2: too because there was no mention of this on my application form (going back a few years ago). After spending a few years on exams and coursework and paying out quite a large sum of money over the years, they turn round and say "Oh by the way have you ever had any Creditor Agreements". Its like you wouldnt jump into a swimming pool and THEN ask someone if the water is cold.

Can anyone please give me some advice or hope please ?

Thanks very much, I appreciate it :thumbup1: !!

Chris

[Devilishbird]

Best thing Chris is to give the AAT a call and ask them directly. They can then tell you exactly what they want to know,

Regards
Kim

[X7thomas]

Hi Kim,

Thanks for the reply. I did give them a call but they are so vague. All I get from them is that it will be sent to a discretionary board. Maybe it will make it, maybe it wont make it "kinda thing". I really hope they accept it :001_unsure: !

Thanks again !

[Poodle]

Hi Chris,

I worked with someone once in exactly the same situation.

He had to write to the AAT and explain the circumstances of the IVA and I think that he had a certificate? to confirm that the IVA had completed.

He was awarded full membership.:thumbup1:

Not sure how it would affect a MIP license though

Poodle

[X7thomas]

Thats great thanks Poodle. Ive got my certificate so I will make sure I send that off too.

I feel better now knowing that someone has been in exactly the same place as me and got Full Membership.

Thanks again !! :thumbup:

[King of the Mountains]

What's an IVA? Please

[deanshepherd]

I feel really annoyed :mad2:


Not half as annoyed as the people you owed money to I'm sure!

Membership of the AAT is supposed to confirm 'professionalism' and to escape payment for something received in good faith is, in my book, theft.

Sorry if that sounds judgemental but being a member of a professional body is about more than just passing exams.

But I guess everyone deserves a second chance.. ;)


-----------------


Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA)

An IVA is an alternative to bankruptcy; a person can enter into an IVA and pay only a limited amount back to their creditors over a period of time.

These are seen as a preferable option to Bankruptcy because the creditors will get at least some of their money back.

[peugeot]

Hmmm...

Dean's reply is a little judgemental (sorry Dean).

A family member of mine was nearly involved in an IVA, for circumstances which could not be helped (her husband died). She lost her house instead.

Sometimes it's not just a case of racking up a whole load of debt and then not paying it!

[deanshepherd]

Yeh, you're right - a little OTT on my part.

[Poodle]

IVA's are an unfortunate sign of the times, I agree partly with Dean because people do not clear all of their debts but do clear their names and they are open to misuse.

I do not see a problem with allowing full membership, subject to the reasons for the IVA and subject to the IVA being fully satisfied, however I would struggle with an application for MIP status.


Incidentally, the IP in charge with my colleagues IVA, in later
years absconded with in excess of £40k of creditors monies collected from people who had paid into their IVA's. No doubt then going into an IVA himself!

[peugeot]

It would be incorrect to say that there aren't people out there that do rack up thousands and thousands on credit cards and other means of finance and then go into an IVA simply because they can - this is where I feel the system can be (and is) abused. The last twelve months have highlighted just how easy it is to do that. Every day of the week I come home to about 3 or 4 letters offering me loans, remortgages, credit cards even offers to buy my house and rent it back to me - some people view these as invitations for free money.

My relative's situation was different in that it happened a few years ago, when IVAs where relatively unheard of and, hence, relatively more difficult to get granted one than it is today.

What I was trying to get across was that sometimes situations can take a turn for the worst in life and what is an "easy way out" for some people may be the "only way out" for others.

Best regards
Steve

[X7thomas]

Thanks for everyones replies.

However I must say that Dean your comments are totally out of order. I asked for advice. Not to be kicked to the ground when you dont even know my circumstances :thumbdown:.

I am very professional and take my career extremely seriously. Im fully aware it is not all about the exams.

Finance companies also have a duty of professionalism in what they do and if you call offering thousands and thousands of pounds to an 18 year old who they dont know from adam professional then I dont know what to say :confused1:.

I admit there is NO excuse for getting into debt I cannot pay back, but there are damn good reasons.

At the age of 18 you do not fully understand the concept of money being young and nieve thinking oh yes i can afford the repayments no problem until it just hits you one day and you think sh*t what have i done.

All financial institutions have access to credit files and from this they can see the max credit limits on everything I have. Now if they were professional in what they do, then they would think "Hang on now this guy is earning X amount of money and he already has X amount available to him on credit. If he was to max on every card then he wouldnt be able to afford to pay them back".

Its quite good now to see that the finance market in general is getting tougher giving out credit. This is because their stupid actions from the past (giving people to much credit) is coming round and slapping them in the face causing a decrease in their profits. Look at Eggs latest actions, they dont want any rich customers because they cant make money off them tut tut :mad2:.

And if i wasnt a responsible person then I could have just said "Opps sorry Mr credit card company im bankrupt" and been totally debt free. I think you should have more respect for people that enter into IVAs from now on because these people (like myself) actually WANT to clear and pay their debts off by giving 100% of their disposable income for 5 long years.

Sorry for the long e-mail but it really annoyed me when people just say things without knowing any background knowledge or stress that I have been through all because of stupid money :crying:.

One good thing to come of this though is that it has taught me one HELL of a good lesson :thumbup:.

Thanks

Chris

[deanshepherd]

Hi Chris

Sorry if you were offended, I agree that I could have worded my response much more tactfully.

I still believe that actions have consequences and, however unprofessional money-lenders may be, people with IVAs have had the benefit of money which will never be repaid in full.

I guess the real question is how important is it in assessing somebody's 'fit and proper' status in becoming a member of a professional body.

In your case, I am sure you have learned a valuable lesson which will only make you a better professional.

:thumbup1:

[X7thomas]

Thanks Dean.

I just hope I dont come across major problems because of it :confused1:.

[paulr]

Good morning Chris,
just read your comments;
I hope that AAT look sympathetically at your position and realise that
you are only human like the rest of us; good luck for the future
and be positive,
Paulr.

[red_devil]

To Mr Dean Shepherd....

What gives you the right to judge someone when you know nothing about them? Shame on you!

[deanshepherd]

The fact that somebody posted something on a public forum gives me every right to voice my opinion, just as you are entitled to.

You say I know nothing about this person, well.. one thing I do know is that they have borrowed money and, for whatever reason, will not be paying it back in full.

If you followed the thread through you will see that I later backed down on the harshness of my initial response. I am not trying to judge Chris personally and in fact am of the opinion that he should indeed be allowed membership of the AAT.

However, I am also not going to patronise Chris by patting him on the back and saying c'est la vie.

Bankruptcy and IVAs no longer have the same stigma attached to them as they once had and I do not see that as something positive.

[richardw]

one thing I do know is that they have borrowed money and, for whatever reason, will not be paying it back in full

an IVA does not mean that they will not be paying the funds back in full. It is a way of paying off debt, in agreement with the creditors. The citizens advice bureau used to set up similar things, whereby the interest on the debt is suspended, to enable the debtor to clear the debt.
quite often, it is the interest & other charges that become un-manageable, not the original debt.

[deanshepherd]

I understand what you are saying Richard, and every case is of course different, but most IVAs result in some form of debt reduction which can be anything up to 75%.

Creditors are faced with accepting the lesser amount or getting nothing following a bankruptcy order.

I have little sympathy for the banks that over-lend but they are not always the only creditors.

[richardw]

as always, a few rotten apples

they should have limited the offering of IVA's to organisations already involved in the sector, eg CAB, local councils
maybe even accountants!
at least that way there would be some control & standards

[deanshepherd]

Sorry Richard but I had to chuckle when you said local councils, accountants and 'standards' in the same paragraph!!

Sorry.. :laugh:

[richardw]

well, the parish councils are probably ok, & those highlands & islands of scotland! :)

[Poodle]

Chris,

After this much extended thread you simply MUST let us all know how you get on:thumbup1:

Poodle

[red_devil]

as always, a few rotten apples



Which forum members are you referring to?! :tongue_smilie:

[Sue]

I agree with Dean's view.

I've known an Accountant suggest to Clients that they use their Credit Card to pay School Fees etc, then declare themselves bankrupt.

Why should people be able to live that sort of lifestyle and not have to pay for it.

[peugeot]

Well for an accountant to suggest that is unforgiveable.

I agree that deliberately going out and racking up huge amounts of debt on a credit card, not paying it and then going down the IVA/bankruptcy route as a means of avoiding the debt is not on, but we have to remember that there are people who's - genuine - circumstances (at the time) dictate that this route is the only way out for them and they can't be tarred with that brush.

Steve

[X7thomas]

Hi Guys,

Sorry not been on here for quite abit. Im going through abit of a nightmare :thumbdown:. Have sent off my application form (along with the additional stuff needed due to my circumstances like an extra character ref, certificate of satisfaction and so on...). My application has been referred to the Professional standards like I expected, so I thought I would ring the AAT today for some sort of update.

This is where it gets really crap. Basically they have told me that before my application is considered, I will need to go through a Disciplinary Investigation because I did not let the AAT know I was entering into an agreement when I did. Im really angry about this because I didnt even know that I needed to. I told the girl on the phone that if I knew I had to inform the AAT, I would have without a doubt. All she said was that when you sign to become a student, you automatically agree to the "terms and conditions" and it is stated in there.

How many people actually read T & C ???

Im really gutted about this. It means that when asked the question "Has there ever been Disciplinary Action brought against you by another Professional body", I will have to answer yes. So in simple terms, im going to have problems with this for the rest of my FINANCE career.

Shall I just get a job cleaning bins or even better sit at home and claim off the state ? Its like im trying hard to make a career for myself and being penalised for one mistake (everyone makes mistakes in life no matter how big or small).

So anyway the bottom line is :

I will be subject to Disciplinary Investigation. They will read through the information I have provided. They will penalise me with one of the following :

- A letter "telling me off".

- Request a statement from me stating I wont do it again.

- Expulsion (Worst possible one).

After the investigation, my application will be passed back to the professional standards, they will then take on board all the information along with the outcome from the Disciplinary and will grant or refuse my membership.

Dont get me wrong, I totally agree that AAT is supposed to show professionalism and I am a professional person. Like I already said.. Fact of life is people do make mistakes and this is how you LEARN. I have certainly learnt never to get myself in that predicament again.

Has anyone got any advice ?

I feel so fed up because I have worked so hard at my AAT. Spent loads of money on materials, exams, courses and now being told it may all be worth nothing.

Sorry to go on :(

[richardw]

If you completed the IVA, have you got a letter that states this? If so this should be good evidence that you did the right thing to clear your debts & not just try & get out of them.

T&C's on most things are ridiculous, anything more than 1 side of A4 is too much really, you cant be expected to read & understand whole volumes of small print.
Also, when you enrol as an AAT student, you dont at that stage know what the outcome will be, whether youl complete the whole qualification, apply for full membership etc.

[X7thomas]

Thanks for your reply.

Yes i sent them loads of backing documentation. Here is a list of what I sent them :

- Application & Payment Form.
- Professional Reference / Work Exp Form.
- An extra Character reference from my Divisional Controller.
- Certificate of Compliance (This is the proof that the IVA is complete).
- Letter from Accountant (who dealt with IVA) confirming IVA complete.
- Another Letter from Accoutant stating that I have dealth with the IVA in a responsible & professional manner.
- Letter/Statement from myself stating how it all came about and the reasons.

Hope it gets sorted !!!

[peugeot]

Please please don't think I'm judging anyone by replying to this thread - but, terms and conditions (T&Cs) should be read with caution - this is because (as you know) companies/institutes will fall back on them.

They might be ridiculous, but they always seem to be (and are) written within the law.

Good luck with your application and I hope you succeed.

Best wishes
Steve

[X7thomas]

Hey thanks for your reply. No i understand where your coming from. People should read the Terms & Conditions, but honestly .. who really does ?

If we read T & C for every service / item / application we entered into we would have no time left at all. They can sometimes be confusing and tend to just waffle on.

Its a shame they just turn straight to their T & C without taking into consideration each persons circumstances first because they can massivly differ.

Nevermind eh ... I was pretty stressed out about it the other day and felt really pis**d off. But I thought well what will be will be, so im not gonna worry about it anymore.

I cant change the outcome.

Fingers crossed & I will let ya know what happens.

Chris :thumbup1:

[peugeot]

I'm sure you'll be fine.

Good luck
Steve

[Emma1708]

Good Luck. Please do come back with the outcome as I will be going through the same thing as you in August (if I pass my exams).

I wonder if it would be worth declaring my IVA now in advance of applying for membership so it would be (hopefully) sorted out by that times comes

Any ideas anyone?

[NeilH]

I wonder if it would be worth declaring my IVA now in advance of applying for membership so it would be (hopefully) sorted out by that times comes

Any ideas anyone?

You should do it before and should really have already have done so, regardless of any intentions to apply for Full Membership or not. Like you say, if you do it now it may be sorted by the time you complete technician.

[X7thomas]

Hey Emma,

Talking about the IVA, you need to tell them about the IVA straight away. I only hope you have not been in it to long because if you have then they may say you should have told us 2 years (for example) when you started your IVA. As where if you only started your IVA this year, then by telling them now it is within an acceptable time period.

The reason I am having more problems now is because I did not tell the AAT about my IVA when I took it out in 2006. It wasnt intentional (same as everyone in my position), it is simply because I didnt know I had to. I would never keep it from the AAT and this is why I am so mad ... because they are taking me to disciplinary for not disclosing it. THEY DIDNT BLOODY ASK.

So yes tell the AAT ASAP and hopefully they wont take you to a disciplinary for not telling them sooner. If you want some advice and want to ask the AAT some questions about it without them making any notes on your file etc .. then just give them a call and dont disclose any personal information.

This link may also be of help to anyone in my position :

http://www.aat.org.uk/servlet/file/professional_standards_insolvency.pdf?ITEM_ENT_ID= 630&COLLSPEC_ENT_ID=34

On another note ..... Ive still not heard anything from the AAT. Was hoping to hear something by the end of this week, so think I will give it to the end of next week now and if I have still not heard anything then I will give them a call :thumbdown:.

Will defo let you all know tho !!

Cheers for your support.

Chris

[Poodle]

The reason I am having more problems now is because I did not tell the AAT about my IVA when I took it out in 2006.

Even if you had read/remembererd the contents of the T&C's I am sure that advisng the AAT of you having to enter into an IVA was not/would not have been the first thing that would have sprung into your mind at that time.

I would imagine that you were more concerned about how you were going to feed yourself/your family and keep a roof over your head!

I would say that any reasonable person (disciplinary panel) would understand that.

Poodle

[X7thomas]

Exactly, thats exactly the point. Going through that kind of stress with debts or IVA (same with anyone), it is an extremely stressful time. I spent most of the time worried about it and hoping this would sort my problems out, losing sleep, worrying how I will manage for 5 years. So although the AAT is important, there are still alot more important things out there that tend to take priority.

I only hope like you say that they will understand this and are not to harsh.